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Thread: Another off flavor taste similar to previous

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Another off flavor taste similar to previous

    Hey guys I need some help I think I posted something like this a while back but I never figured out what it was and now that darn flavor is back
    The only way I can describe it is almost medicinal. I got this same off flavor with a peach beer I brewed a year ago so heres what I did that was the same and different form the last bad batch.

    I used fermentis safale-05 both times

    I used large portions of 2 row malt for each with only small portions of crystal. I used honey malt in the peach batch as well as crystal.

    I introduced a medium while transferring into the secondary in both batches. In the peach I added peaches to secondary. In the pale ale I added hops to the secondary. However with the pale ale I noticed that kinda off smell as it was transferring into the secondary so what ever happened was already done.

    with the pale ale I was brewing late and fell asleep while I was oxygenating the wort it was already below 80 the whole time though but it ran all night. I have a filter on the hose for the air. Also I was re-hydrating the yeast in a sanitized measuring cup which I covered with aluminum that sat all night as well.

    I only did a 60 min boil for each.

    I used a premixed jug of star-san that was well over 4 months old however I mixed it with distilled water and it was in a glass jug this was for the pale ale only. It was still very clear and foamed when I used it. every thing was cleaned and sanitized.

    so thats all I can think of one thing I noticed is that the off flavor is very mild and hides in the background with the pale ale, not like the peach ale where the off flavor was so strong i dumped the batch. So i can think of a few things it might have been but was wondering if anyone might be able to pinpoint where I went wrong thanx guys!

    and off subject I dry-hopped with over an ounce of hops and the hop nose is barely noticeable weird they are home grown hops that i mixed with some pellet hops but it smelled pretty strong maybe I should add some more to the keg?
    Last edited by splocal; 02-05-2010 at 10:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    2,324
    Quote Originally Posted by splocal
    Hey guys I need some help I think I posted something like this a while back but I never figured out what it was and now that darn flavor is back
    The only way I can describe it is almost medicinal. I got this same off flavor with a peach beer I brewed a year ago so heres what I did that was the same and different form the last bad batch.

    I used fermentis safale-05 both times

    I used large portions of 2 row malt for each with only small portions of crystal. I used honey malt in the peach batch as well as crystal.

    I introduced a medium while transferring into the secondary in both batches. In the peach I added peaches to secondary. In the pale ale I added hops to the secondary. However with the pale ale I noticed that kinda off smell as it was transferring into the secondary so what ever happened was already done.

    with the pale ale I was brewing late and fell asleep while I was oxygenating the wort it was already below 80 the whole time though but it ran all night. I have a filter on the hose for the air. Also I was re-hydrating the yeast in a sanitized measuring cup which I covered with aluminum that sat all night as well.

    I only did a 60 min boil for each.

    I used a premixed jug of star-san that was well over 4 months old however I mixed it with distilled water and it was in a glass jug this was for the pale ale only. It was still very clear and foamed when I used it. every thing was cleaned and sanitized.

    so thats all I can think of one thing I noticed is that the off flavor is very mild and hides in the background with the pale ale, not like the peach ale where the off flavor was so strong i dumped the batch. So i can think of a few things it might have been but was wondering if anyone might be able to pinpoint where I went wrong thanx guys!

    and off subject I dry-hopped with over an ounce of hops and the hop nose is barely noticeable weird they are home grown hops that i mixed with some pellet hops but it smelled pretty strong maybe I should add some more to the keg?

    According to the Brew Chem 101 book, that would be Phenols, it says to avoid use proper sparging techniques,especially temperature,PH,and Amount of sparge water.It also says discard plastic fermentation vessels if cut or scratched and maintain sterile brewing techniques to avoid contamination by wild yeasts.
    The mind is like a beer, it does the most good when it is opened.

    Author of Bizarre Brews 101 Now for sale online!

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    103

    been there

    I have had it happen once to me but it was dirty bottles I tryed to sanitize with my home dishwasher. I would guess those peaches needed to be boiled and that's where the nasties are. Just watch you sanitation on everything after that boil stops.
    I love my new set up!!! Hope my landlord does too.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    4,101
    Definitely phenols. Could be from chlorinated water, definitely lack sanitation involved.

    Make sure your water is chlorine free.

    That Starsan may well have been ineffective, clear or not. The only way to be sure is by pH, which must be 2.0 or less.
    -Beerking
    "Asking whether computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim."

    Inventor of the Rauch HellerBock style of beer!
    GABF 2008 Pro Am Silver medal! (Rauch HellerBock)
    1st place Smoked/Wood Aged Beer - 2008 Longshot NE Region

  5. #5
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    Ok seems like were on the right path. I used 90% bottled water only a little tap water cuz I was about a 1/2 gal short for the mash. I thought I read by a star san rep that if you use distilled water that starsan PH would hold indefinitely I dont have any PH strips in 2.0 range but maybe that would be a good idea to get If i am going to store pre-made star san for any length. I will test what I have left to try and rule that out. Im not sure how much chlorine is in my water but again I used very little tap. Do you think this may still be the culprit? What about my plastic hoses? I read that you can get off flavors from these I sanitize all my hosses but if my star san is bad I guess that would have done no good. From the sound of it, it is Phenols it the only off flavor Ive read that fits the bill its really hidden on this batch so luckily its still drinkable you hardly taste it after the second beer maybe cuz your buzzn by that point haha. it seems I notice the flavor when I burp . I need to figure out what step I am messing up on maybe a more organized sanitation process would help. I was thinking about entering this one in a competition but now with an off flavor I dont know. It would be nice to get feed back from the judges though even if it didnt win anything. What do you guys think enter it or wait for one that I know is good? I dont wanna waste any judges time I just know it would help me brew better next time.

    What do you think the chances are that this phenol flavor is from the hops I added at flame out? these were homegrown.
    Last edited by splocal; 02-08-2010 at 02:54 PM.

  6. #6
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    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by splocal
    Ok seems like were on the right path. I used 90% bottled water only a little tap water cuz I was about a 1/2 gal short for the mash. I thought I read by a star san rep that if you use distilled water that starsan PH would hold indefinitely I dont have any PH strips in 2.0 range but maybe that would be a good idea to get If i am going to store pre-made star san for any length. I will test what I have left to try and rule that out. Im not sure how much chlorine is in my water but again I used very little tap. Do you think this may still be the culprit? What about my plastic hoses? I read that you can get off flavors from these I sanitize all my hosses but if my star san is bad I guess that would have done no good. From the sound of it, it is Phenols it the only off flavor Ive read that fits the bill its really hidden on this batch so luckily its still drinkable you hardly taste it after the second beer maybe cuz your buzzn by that point haha. it seems I notice the flavor when I burp . I need to figure out what step I am messing up on maybe a more organized sanitation process would help. I was thinking about entering this one in a competition but now with an off flavor I dont know. It would be nice to get feed back from the judges though even if it didnt win anything. What do you guys think enter it or wait for one that I know is good? I dont wanna waste any judges time I just know it would help me brew better next time.

    What do you think the chances are that this phenol flavor is from the hops I added at flame out? these were homegrown.
    I highly doubt the home grown hops had anything to do with it. my bet would be that your Star San is no longer effective.
    The mind is like a beer, it does the most good when it is opened.

    Author of Bizarre Brews 101 Now for sale online!

    http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000460972

    Or Just Google Bizarre Brews 101!

  7. #7
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    Jan 2009
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    ok I will test my starsan thanx for the help guys. Im actually my worst critic I had a few people tell me the beer was great but I always think it can be better, and though the off flavor is very hidden I can taste it and it drives me crazy cuz its not perfect!

  8. #8
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    If you are now pretty certain it is phenols, and most likely due to sanitation issues, then there is no point spending the $ to enter it.

    If, however, you don't know, go ahead and enter it for the feedback you will get (it is cheaper to get to know a judge in your area who will be willing to try your beers). Most judges are used to getting some infected beers at a competition. Some brewers don't know they have them, and some are truly looking for find out what is wrong.
    -Beerking
    "Asking whether computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim."

    Inventor of the Rauch HellerBock style of beer!
    GABF 2008 Pro Am Silver medal! (Rauch HellerBock)
    1st place Smoked/Wood Aged Beer - 2008 Longshot NE Region

  9. #9
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    Jan 2009
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    217
    Ok thanx beer king...do you live in southern Cali. haha im pretty sure this is what it is. However I did not measure my PH during the mash and I also read that a high ph can leach phenols from the grain husk. I added ph salts but I dont know what the ph was in the first place the guy at my homebrew shop said he just adds it in every batch. So I kinda been doing that too, I think I am going to buy a digital PH tester to make sure my star san is 2.0 and my mash is 5.2 that way I know my mash wont leach phenols and my sanitizer will do its job. seriously though if you know a beer judge in southern California I would love to have a contact or maybe you know where I can find one Im sure it cant be too hard.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    I am in VA. Your best bet for finding someone who knows beer and can give you tips on yours is to join your local homebrew club. Check the AHA at www.beertown.org, or ask at your local shop. They can guide you to a local club.
    -Beerking
    "Asking whether computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim."

    Inventor of the Rauch HellerBock style of beer!
    GABF 2008 Pro Am Silver medal! (Rauch HellerBock)
    1st place Smoked/Wood Aged Beer - 2008 Longshot NE Region

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