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Thread: Porter vs. Stout

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    6,445
    Quote Originally Posted by wortchillergoal
    Porters at one point in time were served sour.
    I have been wanting to do a brett porter with brown malt, some poorly refined sugars and maybe even a little smoked malt.
    It's always time for a beer

    On tap:Oatmeal Stout, ESB
    Primary:Imperial HoppyRoggenbier
    Bottled:2006 crabapple cider,Cherry Brett,Black Braggot,2 Prickly Pear Meads(1996 and 2006),Sour Pumpkin
    Lagering: Pecan Rauchbock
    Secondary: apple cider vinegar
    Next: Sticke Alt

  2. #17
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    Jan 2009
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by wortchillergoal
    Porters at one point in time were served sour.
    Supposedly Rodenbach Grande Cru is a old school porter some say. Because he learned how to brew in England back in the Porters hay day.
    Drinking:Hydrometer sample.
    Up next: Gumballhead clone,Surly Furious Clone
    Primary:Scottish120/?,Simco/Warrior Red, Dogfish 90min Clone.
    Secondary:nadda
    Bottle conditioning:Belgian Imperial Stout,Wee heavy Bottled:Olde Ale,IPA,APA Black IPA steam beer.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by corkybstewart
    I have been wanting to do a brett porter with brown malt, some poorly refined sugars and maybe even a little smoked malt.
    What do you mean by poorly refined.:confused Like Molasses?
    Drinking:Hydrometer sample.
    Up next: Gumballhead clone,Surly Furious Clone
    Primary:Scottish120/?,Simco/Warrior Red, Dogfish 90min Clone.
    Secondary:nadda
    Bottle conditioning:Belgian Imperial Stout,Wee heavy Bottled:Olde Ale,IPA,APA Black IPA steam beer.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,695
    Quote Originally Posted by wortchillergoal
    Porters at one point in time were served sour.
    At that time, most beers were somewhere on the road to being sour. Just a matter of how long after brewing they were served.
    On deck: a clone of Carolina Beer Co's Rye Stout, clone of Breckenridge's Vanilla Porter,
    Primary: Schwarzbier
    Secondary: Dortmunder, Hopweizen
    Keg Conditioning: Dunkelweizen, Roggenbier, Okto, Ord. Bitter
    On tap: Alt, Hefeweizen, Cigar City Maduro clone, Mild
    Bottled: Mead, Quad Rajet, Granola Bar Braggot

    Too much of everything is just enough.
    - J. Garcia

  5. #20
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    Jun 2003
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    4,222
    Found this piece looking for some other information. I thought it would fit this thread well.

    http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2010...three-threads/
    Olgethorpe is screening me!

  6. #21
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    Apr 2005
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    6,445
    Quote Originally Posted by wortchillergoal
    Found this piece looking for some other information. I thought it would fit this thread well.

    http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2010...three-threads/
    Thanks for that Wort, that's an excellent article.
    I wonder when the modern distinction we use today came about.
    It's always time for a beer

    On tap:Oatmeal Stout, ESB
    Primary:Imperial HoppyRoggenbier
    Bottled:2006 crabapple cider,Cherry Brett,Black Braggot,2 Prickly Pear Meads(1996 and 2006),Sour Pumpkin
    Lagering: Pecan Rauchbock
    Secondary: apple cider vinegar
    Next: Sticke Alt

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    460
    I put together a Recipe and I wanted to run it by the forum and get some input? I dont quite understand which grains are the fermentables vs. unfermentables yet, so feel free to fill me in. I combined a few recipe ideas I had gotten from friends along with some online ideas.
    Granted this is an attempt at a Imperial Porter (if there is such a thing)
    10# 2row Pale
    2 # Crystal 120L
    1# Victory
    1# Chocolate
    1# Black Patent
    1# Amber
    1# Flaked Barley
    1oz. Northern Brewer @60
    1oz. Northern brewer @30
    1oz. Goldings @15
    Wyeast 1056 2qt starter.
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    46

    dark toast

    A veritable charcoal sandwich

    Do you really need full poundage on those dark roasts? I will watch for comments from people that have made Porters though.

  9. #24
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    Apr 2005
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    6,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumplemintz
    I put together a Recipe and I wanted to run it by the forum and get some input? I dont quite understand which grains are the fermentables vs. unfermentables yet, so feel free to fill me in. I combined a few recipe ideas I had gotten from friends along with some online ideas.
    Granted this is an attempt at a Imperial Porter (if there is such a thing)
    10# 2row Pale
    2 # Crystal 120L
    1# Victory
    1# Chocolate
    1# Black Patent
    1# Amber
    1# Flaked Barley
    1oz. Northern Brewer @60
    1oz. Northern brewer @30
    1oz. Goldings @15
    Wyeast 1056 2qt starter.
    Way too much going on in that grain bill. First off crystal malts and roasted malts have few if any fermentable sugars. Lets go through this recipe and see if we can't get you a good robust(not Imperial) porter.
    Drop the Crystal 120 to a pound max, .75 would be plenty, Drop the others-victory,BP,Chocolate and amber to 1/2 pound each. My 10 gallon recipes only call for .75 pounds of the really dark roasts and anybody who's ever tasted them will assure you that's plenty. And I wouldn't hesitate to bump the 2-row pale to 12 or even 15 pounds
    Move your hops around-a 30 minute addition is kind of wasted-not long enough to extract any alpha acids for bitterness but long enough to boil away the flavors. Go to Northern brewer at 20 and Goldings at 5 minutes or even flameout.
    I used to come up with a lot of complicated recipes that I thought would add "complexity" to the flavor but in the past 7 or 8 years I've simplified my recipes drastically and been very happy with the results. I look at some of my old recipes and laugh. A base malt and 2 specialty malts are enough for most beers, 2 hops with 3 additions maximum work well also(for most beers). Ask vance71975 how many times I sent him PM's to scale back some of his bizarre recipes.
    It's always time for a beer

    On tap:Oatmeal Stout, ESB
    Primary:Imperial HoppyRoggenbier
    Bottled:2006 crabapple cider,Cherry Brett,Black Braggot,2 Prickly Pear Meads(1996 and 2006),Sour Pumpkin
    Lagering: Pecan Rauchbock
    Secondary: apple cider vinegar
    Next: Sticke Alt

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,015
    I agree that less is often more. My last beer I brewed (pale ale) I used .8 lb of a specialty malt, (medium toast NB) for 10 gallons and I wish I used half of that now. It's good, but the hops get lost IMO.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    460
    Thanks for the replies, I will work on this. My problem is I get caught up in replicating some of my favorite microbrews, then once I find a couple clone recipes I just go with it.
    This recipe seemed to actually fall into a baltic style porter from what the recipe says. Some have even called it a black IPA.
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,324
    Quote Originally Posted by maltyapples
    extract please! Or partial mash.

    (there lies a bit of confusion for me, I'm all for using specialty grains but is that still called just extract, or does it become "partial mash"? and if not, what is partial mash??)
    Both of these are SUPER SIMPLE.


    Simple Porter


    Batch Size: 5.00 gal
    Boil Size: 8.00 gal
    Boil Time: 60 min

    Ingredients

    Amount Item Type % or IBU
    7.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 82.35 %
    1.00 lb Caramel Malt - 80L 6-Row (Briess) (80.0 SRM) Grain 11.76 %
    0.50 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
    2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 38.0 IBU
    1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) Yeast-Ale



    Beer Profile

    Est Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
    Est Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
    Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.90 %
    Bitterness: 38.0 IBU
    Est Color: 29.4 SRM


    Mash Profile


    Steep grains @ 150 (30-60 minutes)


    I used Scottish because i like my porter a bit on the Sweeter Side.

    Simple Stout


    Type: Extract
    Batch Size: 5.00 gal
    Boil Size: 8.00
    Boil Time: 60 min


    Ingredients

    Amount Item Type % or IBU
    7.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 82.35 %
    1.00 lb Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM) Grain 11.76 %
    0.50 lb Roasted Barley (Crisp) (695.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
    2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 37.9 IBU
    1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 10.3 IBU
    2 Pkgs Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) Yeast-Ale



    Beer Profile

    Est Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
    Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
    Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
    Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.23 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
    Bitterness: 48.3 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
    Est Color: 33.3 SRM Color: Color


    Mash Profile


    Steep grains @150 (30-60 minutes)





    Feel free to experiment with them, you can add Molasses or Brown Sugar to either. Just keep it at about 1lb.

    Enjoy!
    The mind is like a beer, it does the most good when it is opened.

    Author of Bizarre Brews 101 Now for sale online!

    http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000460972

    Or Just Google Bizarre Brews 101!

  13. #28
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,324
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumplemintz
    I put together a Recipe and I wanted to run it by the forum and get some input? I dont quite understand which grains are the fermentables vs. unfermentables yet, so feel free to fill me in. I combined a few recipe ideas I had gotten from friends along with some online ideas.
    Granted this is an attempt at a Imperial Porter (if there is such a thing)
    10# 2row Pale
    2 # Crystal 120L
    1# Victory
    1# Chocolate
    1# Black Patent
    1# Amber
    1# Flaked Barley
    1oz. Northern Brewer @60
    1oz. Northern brewer @30
    1oz. Goldings @15
    Wyeast 1056 2qt starter.
    Here are the changes i would make to it.

    10# 2row Pale (Golden Promise)
    1 # Crystal 60 or 80L
    2# Victory
    .25# Chocolate
    .25# Black Patent
    2# Amber
    2# Flaked Oats
    2oz. East Kent Goldings @60
    1oz. Fuggles @30
    1oz.Fuggles @15
    Wyeast 1056 2qt starter.

    That would be what i would do if i was aiming for an Imperial Porter
    Last edited by vance71975; 08-22-2011 at 01:57 AM.
    The mind is like a beer, it does the most good when it is opened.

    Author of Bizarre Brews 101 Now for sale online!

    http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000460972

    Or Just Google Bizarre Brews 101!

  14. #29
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,324
    Quote Originally Posted by corkybstewart
    Way too much going on in that grain bill. First off crystal malts and roasted malts have few if any fermentable sugars. Lets go through this recipe and see if we can't get you a good robust(not Imperial) porter.
    Drop the Crystal 120 to a pound max, .75 would be plenty, Drop the others-victory,BP,Chocolate and amber to 1/2 pound each. My 10 gallon recipes only call for .75 pounds of the really dark roasts and anybody who's ever tasted them will assure you that's plenty. And I wouldn't hesitate to bump the 2-row pale to 12 or even 15 pounds
    Move your hops around-a 30 minute addition is kind of wasted-not long enough to extract any alpha acids for bitterness but long enough to boil away the flavors. Go to Northern brewer at 20 and Goldings at 5 minutes or even flameout.
    I used to come up with a lot of complicated recipes that I thought would add "complexity" to the flavor but in the past 7 or 8 years I've simplified my recipes drastically and been very happy with the results. I look at some of my old recipes and laugh. A base malt and 2 specialty malts are enough for most beers, 2 hops with 3 additions maximum work well also(for most beers). Ask vance71975 how many times I sent him PM's to scale back some of his bizarre recipes.
    Yup Corky has helped me learn a TON and Scaling back some has worked well for me. As you will see i Did scale some of your grains back above, but i also raised the amount on some others that are not gonna taste like ash in your beer.
    The mind is like a beer, it does the most good when it is opened.

    Author of Bizarre Brews 101 Now for sale online!

    http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000460972

    Or Just Google Bizarre Brews 101!

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    460
    I enjoy the way we get diverse opinions in here.
    I think I may scale back on the Darks a bit for that seems to be a common theme.
    I will shoot for a 15-18 lb grain bill. I hope to have a big porter with a hoppy but balanced flavor and a 7-8% abv.

    Vance I am a bit confused with your batch size of 5gal. boil size of 8 gal. and boil time of 60 min?
    How are you reaching 5 gals. in only 60 min?
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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